ParaExplorers On the Road With…Robert Waggoner.
Marie had the pleasure of interviewing ROBERT WAGGONER, author of Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self (Moment Point Press, 2009) on the fascinating subject of lucid dreams.
MARIE
OK, for the person who has never heard of or experienced a lucid dream, how about a description of what it is exactly?
ROBERT
A lucid dream is when you consciously realize in a dream that you are dreaming. So, you have to be consciously aware of dreaming while in the dream state. Normally it occurs after you notice something really odd in the dream, and you realize, “Hey, this is a dream!”
Once you realize that you are dreaming, you can think about what you want to do, make deliberate choices and act on your decisions. It’s like your own magic kingdom – you can fly around the room, ask the dream figures to explain the dream symbols, make items appear or disappear, and other incredible things. But to be lucid dreaming, you have to be consciously aware of dreaming while in the dream.
MARIE
Can anyone have a lucid dream?
ROBERT
Almost anyone can learn to lucid dream. In my book, I provide a number of simple tips and techniques to help people become consciously aware in their dreams. Often people will have a lucid dream after hearing about it for the first time. Some people have emailed me about their first lucid dream after reading the initial chapters in my book.
Scientific surveys of college students have shown that 47% to 90% claim to have become consciously aware of dreaming while in the dream state at least once. So lucid dreaming is actually widespread, especially among younger people.
Some children, who suffer from nightmares, naturally learn how to become consciously aware in their dreams. They realize that the bogeyman only appears in their dreams – so then, the next time they see the bogeyman, they conclude, “Hey, this must be a dream” and become lucidly aware. Often, they decide to wake up, but sometimes they make peace with the bogeyman and befriend it. Some of the best lucid dreamers are those who learned it as a child.
MARIE
Is there any scientific proof for lucid dreaming?
ROBERT
Scientific proof for lucid dreaming dates back to the late 1970’s. Keith Hearne at the University of Hull in England devised a sleep lab experiment in which a lucid dreamer would signal that he was consciously aware and dreaming by moving his eyes left to right eight times in a row. Hearne knew that in dreams, we have REM (rapid eye movement), so he deduced that the REM polygraph pad would capture any intentional eye movement signal. In April of 1975, his lucid dreaming associate, Alan Worsley, became lucid in the sleep lab and moved his eyes left to right to signal that he was consciously aware. Hearne, watching the polygraph in a nearby room, deemed the event scientifically and philosophically “mind-blowing.”
Unaware of Hearne’s work, Stephen LaBerge at Stanford, performed a very similar experiment a few years later by lucidly signaling from the dream through eye movements. LaBerge published his results in a widely read scientific journal in 1981, and has done much research on lucid dreaming since that time.
In my case, I taught myself how to lucid dream before this scientific proof was published. Later I discovered that Buddhists have been teaching lucid dreaming, or dream yoga, for more than a thousand years.
MARIE
Do lucid dreams suggest we are able to have more than one reality? That dreams are a separate reality of their own?
ROBERT
Lucid dreaming definitely indicates that we can be consciously aware in the dream state, or if you prefer, the subconscious. So lucid dreaming appears to be an utterly unique state of consciousness, or an ASC, altered state of consciousness, if you prefer.
Some shamans and experienced lucid dreamers believe that in this state, we have access to other dimensions. When physicists talk about string theory, they say it suggests the existence of 11 dimensions. Viewed another way, psychologists might think of lucid dreaming as offering access to various ‘layers of the Self.’ However you see it, lucid dreaming opens the lucid dreamer to new information and previously unknown concepts.
In my book, I have a chapter on mutual lucid dreams, or dreams in which a lucid dreamer appears to interact with a friend or colleague. Upon waking, the lucid dreamer can often then accurately describe details of the friend’s dream. Did they share a similar dream reality, or did the lucid dreamer telepathically pick up the other person’s dream? Lucid dreamers are looking for answers.
MARIE
What are the benefits of encouraging ourselves to have lucid dreams?
ROBERT
For almost everyone, lucid dreaming is a unique, awesome, joyful experience. When you suddenly realize, “This is a dream!” a euphoric sense of your broader human potential comes over you.
Lucid dreaming can be beneficial in many practical ways. Here are some of the benefits that I mention in my book:
1) Creativity: Consciously aware, you can actively seek creative solutions to problems. Artists have asked to see paintings that they could re-create, while novelists have become lucid and asked their fictional characters for advice on finishing the book. Computers programmers have lucidly written software code, and even musicians have ‘sought the Muse,’ when consciously aware in the dream state.
2) Health Issues: Experienced lucid dreamers believe that they have promoted healing, while lucid in the dream state. In my book, I have a dozen examples of lucid dreamers who became consciously aware and projected healing intent upon their bodies. Upon waking, most (not all) reported dramatic improvements.
3) Spiritual Exploration: Some lucid dreamers become consciously aware and perform spiritual practices like meditation. Those who have done this report an almost instant feeling of spaciousness and space-lessness, while they meditate in the lucid dream. Others have sought out spiritual concepts. For example, they become consciously aware and shout, “Let me experience divine grace,” and suddenly they are swept away by intense feelings of love, acceptance and oneness.
4) Probe the Collective Unconscious: Jung suggested that a collective unconscious may exist, composed of ancient, biologically based information. Consciously aware in the dream state, you can “ask the awareness behind the dream” for information. So instead of asking a dream figure, simply shout out your question to the awareness behind the dream, and wait for the response. People have been amazed at the unknown and unexpected things they have learned, when that unseen awareness responds.
5) Experimentally Discover Precognitive and Telepathic Information: When aware in the dream state, you can conduct personal experiments to obtain unknown information. In my book, I provide anecdotes of lucid dreamers who have consistent success with obtaining valid information. As Dean Radin wrote, this suggests we might have “entangled minds.” With more advanced scientific experiments, I feel lucid dreaming will be seen as a revolutionary scientific tool to explore the vast awareness of the subconscious mind.
MARIE
Are the people we meet in these dreams real or from another level of reality?
ROBERT
When you are consciously aware in the dream state, you realize that dream figures vary. For instance, lucid dreamers discover that when you tell a dream figure, “Hey, I’m dreaming you!” it may respond, “How do you know that I am not dreaming you?” And if you say, “Well look, I can fly” then the dream figure may respond, “Well look, I can fly too!” Needless to say, many experienced lucid dreamers feel that various types of dream figures exist, and some seem to possess a type of awareness and reasoning.
A German psychologist, Paul Tholey, wrote that some dream figures seemed to be consciously aware before the lucid dreamer and appeared actually more consciously aware than the lucid dreamer. In some lucid dreams, you later realize the dream figures were actively trying to help you become lucidly aware.
To complicate matters, experienced lucid dreamers have met dream figures that look exactly like a friend, but the person seems very unsteady, like they can barely focus or pay attention to the lucid dreamer. I recall one such lucid dream in my book, where I meet a friend and try to convince her “We are dreaming this!” She acts so unfocused that finally I put my fingers into a peace sign and shove it into her face, telling her, “Whenever you see this peace sign, you can use it to become consciously aware!” Then I decide to wake up.
A few months later in waking reality, I meet her for lunch. I had never told her this lucid dream. Anyway, she comes walking up to me outside the restaurant and shoves a peace sign right into my face! I say, “Moe, why are you doing that?” She replies, “I don’t know. I just felt like it.” Over lunch, I tell her the story of seeing her in a lucid dream, and shoving the peace sign into her face! We were both amazed. But this has only happened once in my one thousand lucid dreams, so these examples are rare.
MARIE
How do we learn to have lucid dreams? What are some simple things people can do tonight to encourage the experience?
ROBERT
While you can search the internet for a zillion techniques (many of which are total bunk), I have a 35 page appendix with excellent advice from a seasoned lucid dreamer. From using simple suggestion like ‘Tonight in my dreams, I will be more critically aware, and realize that I am dreaming’ to the Castaneda technique and more, my goal is to make it easy for a dedicated dreamer to have a lucid dream.
MARIE
Are their potential dangers to watch out for?
ROBERT
At a University presentation, I was asked that. I responded that if you have a hard time dealing with waking reality, then you should avoid lucid dreaming. First, get grounded in this here and now, and successfully deal with waking reality.
Other than that, beginning lucid dreamers should realize that expectation is very important in the mentally responsive environment of the lucid dream. So if you ‘expect’ trouble from a dream figure, then guess what? You will probably get trouble. If you lucidly encounter an unhappy or upset dream figure, send it messages of love, understanding, peace and compassion. When you send it from your heart, the dream figure will normally transform from acting upset to appearing very loveable and friendly. I have watched mean dogs turn into small, tail wagging, friendly dogs, when I practiced this approach. So when in doubt, respond with love and compassion.
MARIE
Can you tell us what you are working on now and give us information on how people can contact you?
ROBERT
My book website, reviews and all can be found at http://www.lucidadvice.com and my contact email is Robert@lucidadvice.com
My next writing project involves lucid dreaming, reincarnation and the after death experience. Some Buddhist traditions have suggested that lucid dreaming may assist a person in the after death or bardo state. Even agnostic lucid dreamers wonder if lucid dreaming could be a model for the after death environment. I plan to explore this more deeply and discuss my lucid dream adventures of interacting with deceased dream figures and seeking out past life selves. It’s fascinating what lucid dreaming can show you!
Lucid wishes,
Robert Waggoner
Author of Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self